Bleau.info : forum

Both sides of climbing in Fontainebleau posted by Adwin ~ 02.11.2008 23:56

Neil Hart of the climbers' gîte Maison Bleau sent us a little film (pop-up), in which he wants to put a message across to climbers to respect the rock and the environment more than is currently happening. Bouldering is the greatest game there is, but unfortunately we have to point out over and over again not to overuse chalk, pof and tickmarks, and to clean up your own and other people's litter!

Euhhhh.... [fr] posted by roum ~ 08.11.2008 19:28

Les rosbifs ils sont pas mal dans le genre "j'me mets d'la cake jusqu'au cou" , donc les premiers cons cernés c'est pas vraiment nous !!!!

J'ai oublié [fr] posted by roum ~ 08.11.2008 19:30

c'était franchement pour rire : n'y voyez aucune offense pour nos amis d'outre Manche :-))))

thanks posted by neil_h ~ 09.11.2008 18:20

Hi roum, I made this video not aimed at fointainebleau itself, and not at the french locals or the roastbeef british

I do live in font and I am a local to the climbing, my video was more and insight to the effects large numbers of climbers have on the rocks and the enviroment. It just so happens, that cuvier is were i filmed it because the place is getting trashed at an alarming rate.

There are two many new climbers coming into the sport that have not been educated in the ethics of respecting the rocks and enviroment around the rocks.

neil

C'est pas bien de dire ça [fr] posted by titi77 ~ 09.11.2008 20:39

On sent effectivement une réelle envie de faire couleur locale avec une réponse en anglais...Bon soit...Tu as raison Neil, il est nécessaire d'etre pédagogique.Néanmoins, chers Neil et Adwin, j'aurais personnellement mis dans le côté sombre de ta vidéo la fréquentation de certains sites par des hordes de touristes grimpeurs fort sympathiques mais un peu pesants. Pas plus tard qu'hier 12 grimpeurs britanniques essayaient de sécher vainement le bloc du lépreux (déjà bien malmené) à grand renfort de zie (et sans tapis!) sous l'oeil désabusé de Charlie (star locale). Le record demeure tenu en Mai 2007 par un groupe de 45 grimpeurs bataves lâchés furieusement par car au parking du 95.2, jetant leur dévolu sur 3 pauvres blocs. Que faire sinon fuir?

langue posted by Ian ~ 10.11.2008 18:46

Comme etranger moi-meme je crois qu'anglais est la meillure langue pour un tel message ne'est ce pas?

Ok, ok, ok... [fr] posted by roum ~ 10.11.2008 19:51

I apologise for any offense I delivered. Since I'm a stupid froggy and since I knew that Neil was both "local" and "roastbeef" (thanks for spelling...and we already met I'm sure), I focused on brits only but that's true for anybody of us, not only local people...The sense of my first message "cons cernés" (jeu de mots nul, je suis d'accord) was "against" Adwin's one who considered that locals were primarily involved in "magnésie" problems. I let Adwin translate Thierry's message to make understand to everyone's concerned where the problem is coming from...

PS : Salut Thierry, toujours aussi véhément à ce que vois :-)))

Bel exemple! posted by Pascal ~ 10.11.2008 20:28

Dis-donc Neil, un des grimpeurs qui illustre ton "good side" traîne avec lui un monstre sac de magnésie XXL...
Tu te serais pas un peu planté, là???

Bien, bien...pas bien... [fr] posted by titi77 ~ 10.11.2008 21:39

Un peu de provoc fait toujours du bien. On peut tous donner des leçons gnan-gnan à qui mieux mieux, en anglais ou en patois, montrer des vidéos (euh... on voit plus de zie dans la première partie de la vidéo que dans la deuxième, c'est une erreur de montage?), faire des prêches, mais on peut déjà commencer par s'occuper de son propre cas, prendre les déchets là où ils sont (généralement par terre), et effacer sa trace et celle des autres sans en faire une chanson et réclamer la légion d'honneur. Pour la conscientisation des masses on verra plus tard...
Ps: Salut Roum. Quand les cons sont cernés, c'est un signe de fatigue?

pascal posted by neil_h ~ 11.11.2008 10:28

Hi Pascal you are right, there is a big pot of chalk in my video

I for one use chalk and I dont see anything bad with it if you use it correctly. I use only the minimum i need and I always clean it of the rock after I have climbed the problem, I made another video showing how easy it was to clean the rocks after you use chalk

The problem lies in chalk if you dont brush it of then it cakes the rock after rain, but if you are sensable then why not use it

Neil posted by Pascal ~ 11.11.2008 16:36

Hi Neil,

Tu parles comme un américain qui s'offusque des tueries par arme à feu dans son pays et qui cache un gun dans sa boîte à gants; il ne s'en sert que s'il en a besoin, donc il ne se croit pas dangereux...

Bon, j'exagère, que les blocs soient devenus ingrimpables, ça n'a tué personne!

Neilhilism posted by PAC ~ 12.11.2008 10:35

Hi Neil,

I'll reply in English here, even though I'm French. I'm French and I don't quite understand the reactions your video generated. I don't understand how one can complain about the bad practice of some foreign climbers and in the same time be offended by a foreign climber voicing his concern! I find very positive the fact that a foreign fellow climber cares about the forest and its boulders. Whether you live in the forest or not, whether you are a "local" or not, you have the right (if not the duty) to voice your concerns and identify good practices (which many local French climbers ought to be reminded of). This is what you did and people should appreciate that. As for the languange you used in your video, I think English was a good choice. The best choice I guess if only one language had to be chosen. Yet, adding other languages could be useful considering the international diversity of the climbing "community". Cheers.

PAC posted by neil_h ~ 12.11.2008 14:50

my video I made is a simple pointer at what is
happening to rocks all around the world, If I can just make a few people
brush off there chalk and take there litter home than that cant be a bad
thing

The video was made for a comp in England to highlight the effect climbers
have on the rocks, so maybe I did make a point.

I don't really understand all the reply's in French, but hey, the boys at
bleau liked the video that's why they wanted to make a feature if it.

I dont wish to affend people and I do use chalk and pof myself, but its the way in which it is used that is the concern, not the fact we all use it.

neil

PAC posted by neil_h ~ 12.11.2008 14:50

POF? No, thank you. posted by jokken ~ 13.11.2008 14:07

The article "Magnesium vs. pof" (http://bleau.info/cleanup/magnesium.html) is so off target that it's just sad to read.

Pof on the rock is a DISASTER, and you only have to look at the black, glassy footholds on classic boulders to see this. Magnesium, on the other hand, completely dissolves in water, and, hence, washes off in rain, and is completely harmless to the rock. What fills up the pores and doesn't was off is the skin and fat residue from the climbers fingers. Pof does NOT wash off. Try to wash pof off your fingers with clean water - there is no way you will get it off.

And the thing you write about magnesium only having a psycological effect... JISES christ, are you serious??? You need to call the mothership and receive some updates. Seriously.

It's both surprising, sad and scary that a website like bleau.info can present statements like this to the whole bouldering community. It would ruin bouldering in Font for everyone if people actually listened to your "recommendations" on this topic. Please think before stating more BS like this again. It can have a very harmful effect.

Jises...

but alors you are french...(LdF) [fr] posted by titi77 ~ 13.11.2008 20:36

Je savais bien que j'aurai jamais dû faire allemand et latin, je suis largué...

il dit juste... [fr] posted by fil ~ 13.11.2008 20:45

...qu'il est un troll. Enfin du moins, j'espère. Sinon, en ce qui concerne les mises à jour, ben pour lui, y en a plus ;-)))

jokken posted by ian ~ 13.11.2008 20:52

is very certain of his opinions for someone who can\'t even manage to discover the simple fact that MgC03 is insoluble in water

ian posted by jokken ~ 14.11.2008 09:45

ian, ian... You're missing the point. The point is that it WASHES OFF. Was this your point - that it's water insoluble, but that it washes off? Or did you have no point what so ever?

Jokken posted by Pascal ~ 14.11.2008 09:59

Quelle mauvaise foi!
La preuve que la magnésie s'efface avec la pluie: il n'y a qu'à visiter n'importe quel massif fréquenté de Bleau après une averse: plus aucune trace blanche, des blocs propres et neufs, une adhérence parfaite. Dommage que les prises de pied noires de pof rendent les blocs infaisables!

Ah, Jokken, ton discours, Jises...

Pascal posted by jokken ~ 14.11.2008 13:43

Please learn a second language.

Point posted by ian ~ 14.11.2008 15:49

My point was that everything in your post was either simply wrong or, at best, pure speculation.

I simply chose one example, as did Pascal.

Jokken the evangelist posted by Pascal ~ 14.11.2008 16:48

Please, learn to climb without chalk.

let's feed troll a bit more ;-) posted by jipe ~ 14.11.2008 21:10

jokken, you quite boldly assert that pof is responsible for the longtime polishing of footholds...
Hmmm, footholds you say.
Why not simply holds then (that is footholds, handholds, crimps, jugs, slopers, etc)? Oh no, handholds are OK (just filled with magnesia but that's another story).
Alternate theory: polishing is, before all other causes, due to excess sand/dirt on shoes. This is by no means a justification for excessive use of pof or magnesia but it is to say that rule #1 in good bouldering practice should be "wipe your shoes"...

I agree posted by neil_h ~ 15.11.2008 09:00

I think not cleaning your shoes is a big concern and yes polishes the rock so much quicker than pof or chalk.

maybe we should all climb bear foot :)

Alternate theory posted by ian ~ 15.11.2008 15:59

I agree that failure to clean shoes is probably doing more damage than anything else.

My experince is that, when I fist climbed in the forest 20+ yaers ago the polish wasn't really a problem although climbing (with pof) had been going on for at least 80 years.

So what changed? More visiters certainly, but also the dissapearence of the bleausard's paillasson as well as the introduction of chalk.

question posted by Pascal ~ 16.11.2008 08:48

Jokken, réfléchis un peu; pourquoi les prises de pied, et seulement celles-ci, sont-elles noires?

Against stupidity, you just can't win. posted by jokken ~ 25.11.2008 11:27

Jipe, I understand that you have a strong need to characterize me, and, maybe you're a little proud that you know the term "troll", because, let's be realistic, most french haven't even figuered out how to log on to the internet.

Pof is made from resin, and you have to be pretty stupid not to understand that smearing resin on boulders is a bad thing. Pretty stupid.

Why I mention pof only together with footholds, is, obviously, because pof is mostly used on footholds (luckily). The glassy black coating on footholds is resin (in addition to everything that gets mixed into it from your shoes - but the glassy compund is resin).

Finally, I'd like to say that it's pretty unike, that a guy that makes a video to protect the forest from littering and degradation, gets yelled at from the natives just because he's a foreigner. That's french arrogance just the way we're used to seeing it. Font is great, but imagine how great it would be without the whining Bleausards.

Hum... [fr] posted by grokwik ~ 25.11.2008 12:16

An english troll Vs a french troll, I wonder who can win...
Someone to bet maybe ? :D

The Spanish get it posted by jokken ~ 11.02.2009 13:33

Here's the Spanish climbers "rules" for Albarracin. Obviously they are a bit more enlightened than the French when it comes to the use of Mg Vs POF. No suprise.

"3.- Minimize at maximum the visual impact of the magnesium on the rock: use only the indispensable quantity, brush
before and after climbing and tleave all your garbage (cigarettes, fingers strap, ecc...). Possibly use eco-magnesium (with
rock-similar colour pigment - see the Metolius one - )

4.- Parking only in the autorized areas (P signals), and don’t drive in forestal routes.Camping and light free fires are
strictly forbidden.

5- Don’t “paint” the boulders with stripes or other signs for your dynos! If is necessary, use an adhesive band or your
strap and remove it after climbing. ABSOLUTELY don’t use POF or pine’s resine."

Jokken posted by Pascal ~ 12.02.2009 12:52

Tu n'as toujours pas répondu à ma double question:
pourquoi ne voit-on jamais de traces noires sur les prises qui ne servent que pour les mains et de quelle couleur sont les semelles des chaussons?
Qui n'a jamais constaté après une zipette qu'il avait laissé une traînée noire?
Je ne dis pas ça parce-que je suis un ardent défenseur du pof, mais parce-que je sais que ces arguments servent à se dédouaner de l'usage abusif d'une poudre blanche dont beaucoup sont "addicts".
Quant à ce nouvel argument prenant en exemple une règle édictée à l'étranger, drôle d'idée de prétendre que puisque ça se fait ailleurs c'est forcément bon.La peine de mort existe aux USA, la torture en Tunisie, le port du voile en Iran...Modèles?
Surtout que je me demande comment cette idée est arrivée à Albarracin, qui ne me semble pas le berceau de l'usage du pof, ni même être concerné par son usage. Surprise.

Get it? posted by ian ~ 14.02.2009 21:54

I think friend Jokken must have been in charge of the drugs policy last century.
Two substances,
alcohol, widely used & known to cause many problems of health, crime & violence

& dope, some suggest may be linked with health peoblems but little evidence

So which did they make illegal?

A tip posted by jokken ~ 03.03.2009 16:48

If you write your drivel in French, Ian, the frogs will salute you. As it stands now, they simply don't understand it.

If you feel there is not enough evidence to prove that POF fucks up the rock... well, eat more fish. Because this will both improve your vision, so that you can actually visually inspect the rock, and be good for your brain, so that you will be able to process the images that come in through those sockets.

And, yeah, sure, the world would probably be a better place if alcohol was banned and drugs were legal. Good thinking. Keep on smoking and popping those pills Ian.

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